Referring to the song ‘The Jolly Herring’, Peter Kennedy wrote that “Phoebe Smith learned this song from her uncle, Oliver Scamp, a travelling horse-dealer, when they had their wagons in the Ramsgate district of Kent”¹. Mike Yates, writing in 1998, noted that Phoebe’s uncle, Oliver Scamp, a Kentish horse-dealer, was an important source of songs. He also quoted Kennedy saying that Phoebe’s song ‘The Oxford Girl’ came from her uncle Oliver, “a Ramsgate tinker who could make a kettle out of a penny”.²

Maud Karpeles, meanwhile, refers to the Oliver Scamp whom she and Peter Kennedy met in January 1954 as Charlie Scamp’s (and therefore also Phoebe Smith’s) brother. Kennedy wrote that Oliver had a bad cold “but we would like to return and record himself, his son, Oliver and his little daughter Sylvia”.³

This suggests that there were three separate singers named Oliver Scamp (although, sadly, we have recordings of none of them). There were in fact several people in East Kent with this name in the first half of the twentieth century. It is not possible, for example, to identify which Oliver Scamp it was who appeared in court in December 1915, along with a Sidney and James Scamp, charged with poaching rabbits near Doddington – and who, when apprehended by a keeper, “told him his name was Cauliflower Joe, Sittingbourne”.⁴ But it is possible to identify Charlie and Phoebe’s uncle Oliver, their much older half-brother Oliver – both of whom were probably the source of some of Phoebe’s songs – and, tentatively, to suggest the identities of the two men who Karpeles and Kennedy met in 1954.

Oliver Scamp, c1844–1925

The uncle of Charlie and Phoebe Scamp. His parents were Riley Scamp and Sarah, née Lee who, at the time of the 1861 census, were recorded as living “In Tents, Broom Street, Graveney, Faversham”. With them were six sons (Oliver, Riley, William, Samson, Clarence and George) and three daughters (Charlotte, Cinamentta and Mary). All of the family had been born in Kent. For Riley – occupation “Vagrant” – the census enumerator appears to have written “Kent NK The Parishes”, presumably meaning “parish not known”. For the other members of the family the place of birth is given as “Kent – do” (ditto).

Oliver’s age in 1861 appears to be recorded as 19 (or possibly 17), suggesting he was born circa 1841-1844. An Oliver Scamp was baptised on 22^nd October 1843 at Wingham, St Mary the Virgin. His mother was Sarah, which tallies with this being the same person; although the name of his father, a “travelling tinker”, was given as Oliver which, clearly, does not.

It is highly probable that it was this Oliver and his father who were the subject of a court report in the Thanet Advertiser, 24^th October 1868:

TWO SCAMPS IN TROUBLE–Two men named respectively Riley Scamp and Oliver Scamp were charged by Jas. Taddy Friend, Esq., with wilfully and maliciously doing injury to a “live” fence to the value of 6d. On the 18th instant.–They both pleaded guilty.—P.S.  Hoad, K.C.C., stated that on Sunday evening he was coming past Northdown, when he saw the two defendants cutting Mr. Friend’s hedge. They had cut enough to make a faggot. He told them he must detain them until Mr. Friend returned from church, and subsequently took them to the police-station.–Mr. Friend informed the Bench that he did not wish to press the case hard against the men, and asked that they might be leniently dealt with. He merely preferred the charge to make an example.—The Bench taking this into consideration fined defendants 1s. each, 3d. each for the damage due, and 6s. 6d. the costs each.–The money was immediately paid.

The same Oliver Scamp (occupation “Gypsy”) could be found in 1871 living with his wife Letitia and three year old son Riley, “Near Rainham Mark Top of Soapers Lane”. In 1881 Oliver, now a widower, with son Riley and an 8 year old daughter Sabrina, were at “South Wall Gipseys Tent, Deal, Eastry”.

By 1901 he had remarried with a woman called Mary, 22 years his junior. They were “Living in Tent Manstone Fields, Manstone, St Lawrence Extra, Thanet”. His occupation was “Working cutler”. Mary’s place of birth was given as Deal, Kent, but later censuses, which have her name as Mary Jane, give her birthplace as the non-existent “Hengley”, Staffordshire (1911), or more probably Hanley, Staffordshire (1921). It seems that she was Mary Jane Casserley (although there is no record of anyone by that name having been born in Hanley) and she married “Henry Oliver Scamp” on 26^th December 1898 at the Congregational Church in Ramsgate. There is no mention of a Henry Oliver Scamp in Ramsgate in other official records, so it seems this must have been the man usually referred to as Oliver Scamp.

It may well have been the same Oliver Scamp, “a swarthy-skinned son of the Romany” who was fined 12 shillings at Ramsgate Police Court in July 1899 for being drunk and disorderly in the High Street. “He said it was rheumatism, not drink, and that he would do the seven days. His wife, however, paid the fine and Oliver was allowed to go”.⁵

An early indication that theirs was not a happy marriage can be found in a brief notice in the ‘Miscellaneous’ section of the Thanet Advertiser, 30^th December 1899, which reads simply “MARY JANE SCAMP – Please write or come home to Ramsgate”. Clearly Mary Jane was back with her husband at the time of the 1901 census, and ten years later Oliver and Mary Jane – no longer living in a tent it would seem – were at 4 Bolton Street, Ramsgate. He was 68 years old. His birth place was shown as Wingham, and his occupation was given as “Cuttler”. Living with him were six nephews and three nieces, including two other Oliver Scamps – a thirteen-year-old, and a 35-year-old “dealer in horses”, who was almost certainly the son of Oliver’s brother Bill.

The Thanet Advertiser for 18^th November 1916 contained the sensational news that Mary Jane had been arrested and charged with bigamy:

BIGAMY CHARGE.

RAMSGATE WOMAN & SOLDIER

A charge of bigamy was preferred at the Ramsgate police court yesterday (Friday), against Mary Jane Scamp, of High-street, St. Lawrence.

The defendant was charged with marrying and taking to husband Henry William Taylor, on November 20th, 1915, her former husband, Henry Oliver Scamp. to whom she was previously married on December 26, 1898, being then alive.

The defendant, a middle-aged woman respectably dressed in black, was arrested on Thursday.

Taylor, a soldier with whom she was alleged to have gone through the form of marriage last November, was not present and the Chief Constable said he intended after evidence of arrest had been given, to apply for a remand.

Detective-Sergt. Duff, who received certain on September 28th, said enquiries were instituted, as a result of which on Thursday he received a warrant for the arrest of the defendant. At about 1.10 p.m. he saw her at 26, High, street, St. Lawrence, and told her who he was, adding, “Are you Mary Jane Scamp?” She replied, “Yes.” He then asked what was her former name, and she replied, “Casserly.” “Was your father a scaffolder?” he next enquired, and the reply was in the affirmative. He then said, “It is alleged you married a man named Henry William Taylor.” She said “Yes.” Witness replied, “What do you mean by ‘Yes’,” whereupon defendant said, “That I am listening to you.” Witness continued, “You married him at Romford, on November 20th, 1915, and I have a warrant to take you to the police station on that charge.” Defendant said, “Yes, I will own up to it. It is true.” While she was getting her hat and coat defendant said, “It was done in ignorance. I had been living with him and we heard my husband was dead. Have you fetched Taylor yet?” Witness replied, “No—What letters or papers have you about you now?” She replied, “Only my marriage lines with Taylor,” and witness took possession of the certificate.

When charged at the police station, defendant said “We heard he was dead. I was living with the man. We got married.”

Witness also produced a certificate of the marriage between Mary Jane Casserly and Henry Oliver Scamp, at Ramsgate Congregational Church, on December 26, 1898

Upon this evidence, defendant was remanded until Monday.

Further details of the case appeared in the following week’s newspaper, dated 25^th November:

STORY OF TWO MARRIAGES.

RAMSGATE WOMAN CONFRONTED WHEN CHERRY-PICKING.

The two men with whom Mrs. Mary Jane Scamp, of High-street, St. Lawrence, was alleged to have gone through the marriage ceremony, gave evidence at the Ramsgate police court on Monday.

Mrs. Scamp was charged on remand with bigamously marrying a soldier, and when arrested was stated to have said to Detective-Sergt. Duff, “It was done in ignorance. I had been living with him and we heard my husband was dead, so we got married.”

Henry William Taylor, private in the Royal Sussex Regiment, who described himself as a single man, now stated that he first met the accused about three years ago at Sittingbourne. He became on friendly terms with her, and they lived together at Sittingbourne, Gravesend and Romford. During that time she left him twice but did not tell him where she bad been. On 20th November, 1915, they went through the form of marriage at Romford Registry Office. Accused then described herself as a widow, aged forty years. They afterwards lived at 94, London Road, Romford, and then at 8, Crooked-lane, Graveseend, until 14th June last, when he joined the Army.

Henry Oliver Scamp, cutler, living at 26, St. Lawrence, said he married the accused at the Ebenezer Chapel, Ramsgate, on Boxing Day, 1899. Her maiden name was Casserley.

Shown a marriage certificate, witness said he could not read it as he had never been to school in his life.

PICKING CHERRIES TOGETHER.

Continuing, witness said his wife frequently left him. 0n 27th February, 1915, a letter containing a postal order arrived and his wife left him. In the summer of 1915 he saw her picking cherries near Sittingbourne with Taylor. She agreed to come home with him, but while he was at the station, inquiring the time of the train, she disappeared. Taylor knew she was his wife as he had seen the marriage lines at Chilton. In August this year be went to Gravesend and again saw his wife. They went and had a drink, and she came back to Ramsgate with him. She denied having been married again. Letters kept arriving for her, and she left home once more in September. Later he went to Faversham, where he found his wife and brought her home. He questioned her again, and eventually she admitted having gone through a second marriage.

Formally charged, defendant only said : “We heard my first husband was dead—that was the reason we got married. Otherwise I was perfectly happy as I was—happier than I have ever been.”

Committed to take her trial at Maidstone Assizes during the week end, Mrs. Scamp turned to Taylor and said sadly, “Goodbye, Harry, ta-ta ! “

When asked if he would agree to go to Maidstone to give evidence against his wife, Mr. Scamp remarked drily, “Yee, I’ll go anywhere—up to Heaven.”

Defendant left the court with a final emphatic “Good-bye” to the soldier.

A separate article in the same issue reported that she had been sentenced to three months’ imprisonment:

At the Kent Assizes, held at Maidstone on Thursday, Mrs. Mary Jane Scamp, of 26, High-street, St. Lawrence, Ramsgate, was sentenced to three months’ imprisonment for bigamously marrying a soldier.

[…]

The Judge, in sentencing the woman, said he could find no redeeming feature about the case. Defendant had been living a bad life, although her husband bad tried to do his best for her.

When reported in the Kentish Gazette, 2^nd December 1916, it emerged that Mary Jane had pleaded guilty and had been sentenced to three months’ hard labour.

Despite all of this, the 1921 the census showed that Oliver and Mary Jane Scamp were living together at 26 Rodney Street, Ramsgate. At 77 years old he was still working as a cutler. Mary Jane was employed as a charwoman. Oliver died in Thanet at the age of 81, in the first quarter of 1925.

Phoebe Scamp was barely 8 years old when this this Oliver Scamp died. It is by no means impossible that she would have learned some songs from him – there is a well-known recording of a six-year-old Gypsy girl, Sheila Smith, recorded by Peter Kennedy in Sussex in 1952.⁶ And this uncle, who worked as a cutler, could surely have been the “Ramsgate tinker who could make a kettle out of a penny”. However there was another Oliver Scamp, who Phoebe might well have called her uncle, who was a “travelling horse-dealer” from Ramsgate, and from whom she might therefore have learned some of her repertoire.

Oliver Scamp, 1875–1934

The son of Riley Scamp and his first wife Louisa, née Lee, who bore him sixteen children before her death at Cane Hill Asylum, Coulsdon, Surrey in 1892⁷. He was thus a half-brother to Phoebe and Charlie, and nephew of the Oliver Scamp described above. He was born at Hoath, about four miles South of Herne Bay, on 25^th May 1875⁸, and his birth was registered in the Blean district. At the time of the 1911 census he was living with his uncle Oliver at 4 Bolton Street, Ramsgate. He was 35 years old, and his occupation was given as “Dealer in horses”.

This Oliver Scamp has proved elusive in other census records. His death was recorded in the Medway district in the first quarter of 1934, at the age of 58, and he was buried at the Woodland Road Cemetery, Gillingham on 23^rd January 1934. His burial record states “Died at St Bartholomew’s Hospital, Rochester. Removed from/Address St Augustine”.

Given the four decade difference in their ages, Phoebe Smith might well have regarded her half-brother Oliver as an uncle⁹. The notes to the song ‘The Jolly Herring’ on the Caedmon LP The Folk Songs of Britain Volume X: Animal Songs (Caedmon Records TC1225, 1961) have this to say about the source of the song:

Phoebe Smith learned this song from her uncle, Oliver Scamp, a travelling horse-dealer, when they had their wagons in the Ramsgate district of Kent. Phoebe described her uncle:

“A big “upstruck” built man, lovely looking, really one of the finest looking men in the world. The Scamp family were all horse-dealers and slaughtermen, all well-to-do people, nothing cheap and poor. Like yourself, sir, they like to go places, meet the people and have a good time. I think everyone ought to go about more. When people see you live in a caravan (trailer) they say: O they’re gipsies, but perhaps you’re not such a gipsy as what they are!”

Given that he died in 1934, this half-brother of Phoebe and Charlie Scamp was clearly not the Oliver Scamp that Maud Karpeles and Peter Kennedy met in 1954, and whom Karpeles described as Charlie Scamp’s brother.       

Oliver Scamp, 1905–1977

Oliver Scamp, 1925–2003

When Maud Karpeles and Peter Kennedy came on their song collecting trip to Kent in January 1954, they visited a Mrs Bird at Bettenham, near Cranbrook:

She gave us the names of several members of her family, including her brothers, Charles Scamp at Chartham Hatch, near Canterbury, and Oliver Scamp, between Rochester and Sittingbourne, both of whom have a big repertory of songs which they learned from their parents. The Scamps are a big Romany clan scattered all over Kent and most of them seem well-to-do.¹⁰

Mrs Bird was almost certainly Phoebe and Charlie Scamp’s older sister Mary, known as Polly. Although she sang a few songs for Karpeles and Kennedy, she was suffering from laryngitis and was unable to hold a tune. The collectors then visited Charlie Scamp and recorded several songs from him. On the final day of their trip, Monday 18^th January, they went

To the “Sun-in-the-Wood” at Lower Halstow, where we recorded Oliver Scamp, but he had also had a bad cold and was not up to it, but we would like to return and record himself, his son, Oliver and his little daughter Sylvia.¹¹

The evidence is circumstantial, but a strong case can be made that these two men called Oliver Scamp, father and son, were the same people as were recorded in the September 1939 Register as hop pickers working at Frogs Hall Farm, Tenterden.

The 1939 Register did not specify the relationships between people recorded, but it is probably safe to assume that Louisa was married to the older Oliver, and the fifteen-year-old Oliver was their son.

Mary Bird, née Scamp, was hop-picking at Frogs Hall Farm in September 1939, and given that the Scamp family sometimes found it convenient to use the surname Matthews when dealing with officialdom, we can be fairly sure that the Henry and Ted Matthews also working on the farm were her brothers, while Sam Matthews was probably a relation too, possibly one of her older half-brothers.

Looking at the birth registration records for the fifteen-year-old Oliver Scamp, we can see that when registered in the Milton district, in the third quarter of 1925, his mother’s maiden name was given as Matthews. This leads to the possibility that his mother Louisa was Charlie and Phoebe Scamp’s older sister. In the 1921 census this branch of the Scamp family was recorded under the surname Matthews. They were camped at Mystole near Chilham – William and Ann Mathews, with six sons and two daughters, Louisa and Phoebe. Louisa was fourteen at the time, which fits with a birth date of September 1907, as recorded in 1939.

If this is correct, then her husband Oliver was not Charlie Scamp’s brother, as Maud Karpeles wrote, but his brother-in-law. No doubt Louisa and Oliver were related in some way, but from different branches of the very extensive Scamp family.

In 1939, Oliver’s date of birth was given as 25^th December 1902. When his death was registered in 1977, his birth date was recorded Christmas Day 1905, not 1902, but it’s possible that neither of these dates was correct: it seems probable that he was the Oliver Scamp baptised on 29^th January 1905 at St Martin of Tours, Guston, near Dover, where a marginal note says “Born CHRs Day 1904”. This Oliver was the son of George and Isabella Scamp. His father’s “Quality, Trade or Profession” was given as “Gipsy”, and their abode was “G. Ellen’s field”. In 1901 the census enumerator had found them camped near Wickhambreux; George’s occupation was given as “Agricultural labourer & peg maker”.

Peter Kennedy’s notes specifically state that, despite the fact that the singer had a bad cold, he had recorded Oliver Scamp singing at the Sun-in-the-Wood pub at Lower Halstow in January 1954. No such recording seems to have survived (or, at least, no such recording has yet been indexed). But evidence that a recording was made comes from a short article in the East Kent Gazette, 16^th April 1954:

Local broadcast

When the regular Sunday morning programme of English folk songs, “When I roved out,” returns to the B.B.C. in the autumn, the voice of veteran farm worker Mr. Oliver Scamp will be heard singing some of the Kentish Romany songs. He works for Mr. Archibald Bishenden at Breach Lane, Newington. Recordings were made recently at the Sun-in-the-Wood public house, Lower Halstow, when members of Mr. Scamp’s family also sang. Produced by Mr. Harold Rogers, “When I roved out” has proved a popular morning feature dealing with the folk songs of England.

In the best traditions of local newspaper reporting, the name of the popular radio programme is incorrectly given as “When I roved out” – it was actually “As I roved out”, the first series of which had been broadcast on Sunday mornings on the BBC Light Programme between 27^th September 1953 and 28^th March 1954. It may well have been expected that the programme would return that Autumn, although the next series did not in fact begin until 3^rd April 1955 – and it is not clear if Oliver Scamp ever featured on the programme. Listings in the Radio Times show that the episode broadcast on Sunday 8^th May 1955 featured songs from Kent and Sussex, while the following week the theme was ‘The Travelling People’. So it is possible that he was included in that broadcast – the Radio Times sometimes listed singers featured in the programme, but that was the exception rather than the rule.

Other local newspaper reports show that the younger Oliver, like his father, did farmwork, and lived at Breach Lane, Newington (the address is sometimes given as Breach Lane, Upchurch). These reports also suggest that he was frequently in trouble with the law.

In November 1953, with another man, he was gaoled for three months after having placed boulders on a busy main road (what would now be referred to as the A2). The committal hearings were reported thus in the Sheerness Times Guardian, 6^th November 1953:

Policeman heard “terrific” noise

CAR & VAN HIT BOULDERS PLACED IN MIDDLE OF ROAD

—PROSECUTION ALLEGE

Two men charged with causing wilful damage

ALLEGATIONS that two men placed two large boulders in the middle of the main London-Canterbury Road during the night and that a car and a van crashed into them, were made in a case heard at Sheerness Magistrates’ Court on Monday.

Walter Eastwood, aged 32, of Ash Tree Lane, Chatham, and Oliver Scamp, aged 28, living in a caravan in Breach Lane, Newington, were charged with being concerned together in causing wilful damage to a car belonging to James Maxwell, of Nethercourt Gardens, Ramsgate, to the extent of £20 and to a van belonging to Sydney Edward Belson, of High Street, Chatham, to the extent of £35.

The boulders, each weighing more than half a hundredweight, were produced in Court.

Police Inspector J. Kierans, prosecuting, said that Scamp and Eastwood were arrested in the early hours of Sunday morning by Police Constable K. C. Ambrose of the traffic division, Rochester.

In evidence, Police Con. Ambrose said that he was on motor patrol duty with another officer at London Road, Upchurch, at 12.30 a.m. on Sunday.

“CROUCHING IN UNDERGROWTH”

A few yards past the Rest Tea Rooms he saw two men in the centre of the road and he saw them run off the road and crouch down in the undergrowth.

Witness got out of the car and approached t lien. They ran away but he caught Scamp.

“l then heard a terrific crashing noise and saw that a car had collided with something in the road,” said Police Con. Ambrose, “came along, hit an object and zig-zagged along the road.

Witness said that another police officer who was with him found the two large boulders in the middle of the road. Scamp was taken to Rainham Police Station and when told that he would be charged with damaging the car and the van by placing the boulders in the road, be made no reply.

Eastwood was apprehended by the police later while he was walking along the main road.

ALLEGED STATEMENTS

Both accused were taken to Sittingbourne Police Station and were charged.

Eastwood was alleged to have said “I was daft to do it,” while Scamp replied, “You prove it.”

The men were remanded in custody to appear before Sittingbourne Magistrates on Monday next.

A week later on 13^th November the newspaper was able to report that Scamp and Eastwood had both been sent to prison:

MEN PUT BOULDERS IN ROAD

Gaoled for malicious damage to car and van

TWO men who two large boulders weighing more than half a hundredweight in the middle of the road, into which a car and van crashed, were sent to prison for three months at Sittingbourne Magistrates’ Court on Monday.

They were: Walter Eastwood (32), of Ash Tree Lane, Chatham, and Oliver Scamp (28) of Breach Lane, Newington. They pleaded guilty to committing malicious damage to the car and the van.

Prosecuting, Mr. N. K. Cooper said that walking home from Chatham along the main London Road at Upchurch, the men tried to thumb a lift but the motorist not stop.

It was past midnight when they came upon a parked car and asked the driver if he would take them to Chatham. But the driver told them to “clear out.”

To get their own back on the motorists, Eastwood and Scamp then placed two large boulders, each weighing more than half a hundred-weight, in the middle of the road and within a few seconds a car and a van had crashed into them.

[…]

POLICE CHASE

Scamp was caught and it was while the officers were chasing the two men that the two vehicles came along the road and collided with the obstacles.

At that time the police were unaware of the boulders in the road.

The explanation seemed to be, Mr. Cooper went on, that Eastwood and Scamp had been drinking and, while making their way along the road, had been refused lifts by motorists.

Purely out of spite for the motorists who had refused to give them a lift, they had placed boulders in the road for the purpose of bringing these motorists to grief.

[…]

In a statement to the police Eastwood had said that they were on their way home to Chatham and tried to thumb a lift, but the cars just went by.

He asked the driver of a parked car for a lift, but the driver told him to ” . . . off.” He offered the driver money, but this was refused and as he walked along the road he kept thinking about the man in the car. He threw the boulders into the road, thinking it would teach the driver a lesson.

Scamp made a similar statement, in which he said that Eastwood threw the stones into the road, saying. “l will catch him.’ •

“MIGHT HAVE CAUSED LOSS OF LIFE”

Neither of the two men had anything to say in Court. Both had previous convictions.

Oliver was in trouble again three years later. The Sheerness Times Guardian, 29^th June 1956, contained a somewhat melodramatic news item which began as follows:

Mother Pleads For Gipsy Scamp

Tears in her eyes, a Gipsy’s mother appealed to Sheerness Magistrates on Monday – “Can I have my son? Can I have my son?”

Before the Court was swarthy Oliver Scamp. Head bowed, he had heard the Chairman of the Magistrates, Ald. R. W. Rule, commit him for trial at the East Kent Quarter Sessions on a charge of breaking and entering a house in Upchurch and stealing a jar of face cream, a tin of humbugs and a tin of oranges, valued at 11s. 4d.

Hearing the Police were not opposed to bail, the Chairman granted the mother’s request saying, “You’ll see he appears in Court then.”

” On my honour, Sir,” she replied gratefully.

He was fined £15 for the offence, as reported in the Kentish Express, 31^st August 1956:

After coming home from drinking with his mother and father one night, Oliver Scamp, 31, farm worker of Breach-lane, Newington, near Sittingbourne, gave them the slip and broke into “Dormalee,” Breach-lane, Newington, and stole property worth 11s. 4d. from Ellen A. Golding. At the East Kent Sessions at Canterbury, on Monday Scamp was fined £15. He had three convictions of a similar nature and one of malicious damage at Sittingbourne in 1953. He comes from a gypsy family. His mother, Mrs. L. Scamp, and his aunt, Mrs. M. Bird said that that night he had too much to drink and did not know what he was doing.

The East Kent Gazette for 31^st August had a longer report on the case:

Only got drunk at week-ends

UPCHURCH MAN FINED FOR BUNGALOW THEFT

When a mother told the court at the East Kent Quarter Sessions at Canterbury, on Monday, that her son only got drunk at week-ends, the chairman (Mr. Tristran Beresford, Q.C.) asked why week-ends should be a special reason for his indulgence.

Before the court was Oliver Scamp (31), of Breach Lane, Upchurch, who pleaded guilty to breaking into a bungalow known as Dormalee, Breach Lane, Upchurch, during the night of 15th June and stealing goods to the value of 11s. 4d., the property of Miss Ellen A. Golding.

[…]

Had been drinking

He denied any knowledge of the offence but later admitted it, saying he had had a lot to drink. In a statement he said he had been to a public house on the night of 15th June and had been drinking. On the way home he left his parents, went to the bungalow, smashed a window and took the articles. He did not know why he did it.

Police-sergeant Stewart said Scamp had been before the courts four times for larceny, assault, malicious damage etc. He was one of a family of gipsy extraction and had very little education. Since 1951 the family had been at Breach Lane had he had been working as a farm labourer.

Scamp had nothing to say.

Mrs. Louisa Scamp, his mother, pleading for leniency, said her son was very drunk at the time, but usually he was a very son. She then said that it was at week-ends that he got drunk.

Miss [sic] Mary Bird, his aunt, said there was nothing wrong with her nephew until drink got the upper hand of him.

Mr. C. R. Trusler (probation officer) expressed the opinion that it was not a suitable case for probation, and Scamp was fined £15 with the alternative of three months’ imprisonment.

The protestations of his mother and aunt seem plausible – whilst not wishing to condone burglary, stealing face cream, humbugs and tinned fruit (total value around £12 in 2026 prices) is hardly the work of a serious house-breaker.

The naming of his mother as Louisa Scamp is surely proof that this is the same Oliver Scamp who was a fourteen-year-old hop-picker at Tenterden in September 1939; and the fact that Mary Bird was his aunt strongly supports the proposition that it was this Oliver Scamp, and his father, who Kennedy and Karpeles met in January 1954.

It was probably the same man who was fined 10 shillings by Sittingbourne magistrates in May 1957, having been stopped by a policeman for riding his bicycle without front or rear lights or a reflector – “Oliver Scamp, of no fixed address, admitted there had never been any lights on the cycle ever since he had owned it”.¹²  And he may have been the Oliver Scamp who had to pay the legal costs of a husband from Lower Halstow when cited as co-respondent in a divorce case the following year.¹³

The elder Oliver Scamp died in 1977, his death being recorded in the Sittingbourne district in the third quarter of that year. He is buried in Sittingbourne Cemetery. The death of his son Oliver was registered in the Canterbury district in the first quarter of 2003.

1. Peter Kennedy, notes to The Folk Songs of Britain Volume X: Animal Songs, Caedmon Records TC1225 (LP, USA, 1961) ↩︎
2. Mike Yates, notes to The Yellow Handkerchief, Veteran VT136CD (2001) ↩︎
3. Peter Kennedy, ‘Kent Trip January 1954’ (report submitted to Marie Slocombe, BBC), https://www.peterkennedyarchive.org/1954-2/kent-1954/  ↩︎
4. Faversham Times and Mercury and North-East Kent Journal, 18 December 1915 ↩︎
5. East Kent Times and Mail, 19 July 1899 ↩︎
6. Sheila Smith, ‘Dear father pray build me a boat’, available on I’m a Romany Rai, Topic TSCD 672D. ↩︎
7. Louisa Lee Scamp, Find a Grave, https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/242771238/louisa-scamp ↩︎
8. Birth date taken from https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/224581486/oliver-scamp ↩︎
9. The terms “uncle” and “aunt” might well have been used more widely still – a descendant of the Scamp/Matthews family told me “when I was growing up we use to call the men our uncles and the women our aunts” – Jodie Carr, personal communication via Ancestry.com. ↩︎
10. Maud Karpeles, Report on Collecting Expedition in Kent, January 14 – 17, 1954 (typescript copy held at the VWML) ↩︎
11. Peter Kennedy, ‘Kent Trip January 1954’ (report submitted to Marie Slocombe, BBC), https://www.peterkennedyarchive.org/1954-2/kent-1954 ↩︎
12. East Kent Gazette, 10 May 1957 ↩︎
13. East Kent Gazette, 14 February 1958 ↩︎

Mary “Polly” Bird, née Scamp, 1900–1891

Polly Scamp was an older sister of Phoebe and Charlie Scamp. At least one of the songs in Phoebe’s repertoire – ‘Higher Germany’ – came from Polly.¹

The identification of Polly with Mary Scamp comes from family historian Calum Mendham via the Findagrave website.² She was born on 4^th February 1900, and was probably the Polly Scamp registered in the Blean district in the first quarter of that year. But there is also a baptism record for a Mary Scamp which appears to relate to the same person. This is from Warehorne, dated 5^th April 1900, and it gives her parents’ names as William and Ann Scamp. The official birth record for Polly gives the mother’s maiden name as Jones – and all of these details are consistent with what we know of Phoebe and Charlie’s parents.

I have not been able to locate the family of Bill and Ann Scamp in the 1911 census, either under the name of Scamp, or their alternative surname of Matthews. By June 1921 when the next census was taken Polly / Mary had married another traveller, Henry Bird, and they were to be found living in Fruitpickers’ Huts at Eynsford. Henry, born in Chatham, was 23 years old and employed as a Farm Labourer by M J Lee, Fruit Farmer. Mary, as she appeared here and in subsequent records, was shown as having been born in Margate. She was 22 years old³, and her occupation was given as “Farm Hawker”. They had a son, Henry, less than 1 year old.

At the time of the 1939 Register Mary was, unsurprisingly, to be found at the hop-picking – specifically at Frogs Hall Farm, Tenterden. She and Henry appear to have had two more children, a son and a daughter. Living alongside them were Sam, Henry and Edward Matthews. The latter two were almost certainly her brothers, Henry and Ted Matthews aka Scamp, while Sam was also most likely a relation, possibly one of her half-brothers. Louisa Scamp, who I believe to be her sister, was also at Frog’s Hall Farm with her husband Oliver and son, also Oliver.

Maud Karpeles must have encountered Polly during the course of her folk song collecting trip to Kent in October 1955:

I interviewed  some gipsies, name of Stanley, at Bettenham. They know a number of songs, but I could not ask them to sing  as there had just been a death in the family. I arranged to pay them a visit later on.⁴

Stanley was presumably a name of convenience used by Henry Bird’s family, in the same way as the Scamps would sometimes use the surname Matthews. In January the following year, Karpeles returned to Kent with Peter Kennedy, and her report makes clear that “Mrs Stanley” was Charlie Scamp’s sister:

Our main objective was Mrs Stanley (real name Mrs Bird), Bettenham, near Cranbrook, a gipsy whom I had met on my previous expedition. On our first visit she was out, but we called again on the morning of the 15th. As I suspected, she has a big repertory of songs. Unfortunately she was suffering from laryngitis. She managed to sing us a few songs, but she was unable to hold the tune and I doubt if this was entirely due to her ailment. She gave us the names of several members of her family, including her brothers, Charles Scamp at Chartham Hatch, near Canterbury, and Oliver Scamp, between Rochester and Sittingbourne, both of whom have a big repertory of songs which they learned from their parents. The Scamps are a big Romany clan scattered all over Kent and most of them seem well-to-do.⁵

Given the contextual information we have, this must have been Polly / Mary. Sadly no recording of the songs she sang appears to have survived, and we have no way of judging for ourselves if she was, as Karpeles implies, not a particularly skilled singer.

Peter Kennedy’s report on the same trip contains some additional information, and records the fact that Mrs Stanley not only directed the collectors towards Charlie and Oliver Scamp, but also towards Phoebe and Joe Smith in Suffolk:

Friday 15th January

To Mrs. Stanley (Bird) living in a caravan on Mrs. Stern’s farm, 3, Chimneys, Betenham, near Sissinghurst. She and her daughter Peg both had tonsilitis but we got names of large number of songs that she knew. Her life story would be well worth recording. She gave us address of her sister Mrs. Smith, Melton Meadows, Melton, Woodbridge, Suffolk. Her husband, Joe, plays fiddle and melodeon and names of other relations in Kent to whom we went the following day.⁶

Again, we can only regret that, while Mrs Stanley’s “life story would be well worth recording”, Kennedy never returned to record it.

The death of Mary Bird was registered in the Swale district in the first quarter of 1981. Her record on the Findagrave website states that she died in Faversham at the age of 81, on 11^th March 1981, and was buried at All Saints Churchyard, Biddenden.

1. Phoebe’s son Manny, quoted in the booklet to the CD The Yellow Handkerchief, Veteran VT136CD, 1998. ↩︎
2. Mary “Polly” Scamp Bird, https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/242450993/mary-bird ↩︎
3. As of April 2026, the census record on the Findmypast website shows Mary as 32 years old, but checking a scan of the original document suggests that her given age was actually 22 years and 4 months; the transcription is in any case rather suspect – the family’s location is given as “Frumpockins Hunts” rather than “Fruitpickers’ Huts”! ↩︎
4. Maud Karpeles, Folk Song Collecting Expedition Kent October 12th – 17th 1953, VWML Archive Catalogue MK/1/2/4907. ↩︎
5. Maud Karpeles, Report on Collecting Expedition in Kent, January 14 – 17, 1954 (typescript copy held at the VWML) ↩︎
6. Peter Kennedy, ‘Kent Trip January 1954’ (report submitted to Marie Slocombe, BBC), https://www.peterkennedyarchive.org/1954-2/kent-1954/  ↩︎